Answers KJV Onlyists are Afraid You will Provide [3]

thehaterI have been providing responses to the KJV onlyist challenge:

See parts one and two.

Moving along to final questions,

22). Do you know – for a fact – what the requirements of the American Bible society are, for a person to participate as a translator – in a Modern Version?

Okay, what exactly are the requirements? I would be curious if our KJVO advocate here really knows for himself.  I went to the American Bible Society website and hunted all over the place to find an “official” list of requirements to be a translator, but apparently they are either hidden in the darkest corners in the underground vaults of their building in New York City, or they have found out that a league of KJV onlyists are out to expose their New Age agenda, because they don’t list the requirements for a person to be a translator. I am guessing that either a KJVO advocate knows something we modern Bible version (MBV) folks don’t, or he is exaggerating the nature of these so-called requirements.

The next question has 3 or so extra questions woven in to one. I will look at them in turn:

23). Do you know – for a fact – what the requirements of the German Bible Society are, for a person to participate as a translator – in a Modern Version?

I figure that if our KJV onlyists can’t produce a “requirement list” for the American version, he is going to be even more hard pressed to find one for the German group, it being in a foreign language and all that I am sure our KJVO apologist here doesn’t have a clue how to either speak or read.

Do you know that the United Bible Societies, the UBS Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament – used in 95% of the seminaries today – is essentially the product of the German Society and that they retain the Copyright on the Nestle-Aland Greek Text?

Okay? So what? Oh, I am confident our KJV onlyists will insist there is some conspiracy to be exposed, but I have yet to see any serious evidence for one. At least evidence for one that should strike fear in my heart. By the way, most KJV onlyists carry on about how the KJV is a non-copyrighted work, but in reality, Oxford and Cambridge presses hold the copyright on the KJV. See an extended study on the KJV and copyrights.

Do you realize that the Beliefs, Teachings, Ideology and Methods of Translation of the German Bible Society will therefore be evidence on every page of the Greek Text that Modern Versions use (since modern versions rely almost exclusively on the Nestle-Aland bad Greek Text)?

translatorsFirst off, it would be helpful if our MBV accuser provided some documentation, or any evidence for that matter, explaining the “Beliefs, Teachings, Ideology and Methods of Translation” by this black-hooded German Bible Society. All we have from him are baseless accusations. Secondly, how is he defining “bad.” I have an idea, but in order for him to establish some credibility for his conspiratorial delusions, I would like to have something more substantial.

His next question, question 24, is fairly lengthy, so I will not quote it in its entirety.

24). Have you ever stopped to ask yourself, if the Germans Bible Society was around in the Time of Hitler, (which it was), and if the German Bible Society operated during the time of Hitler’s Third Reich in Germany (which it did), and if it needed a Nazi “certificate of good standing” (which it did), then what would this mean…for your modern Bible Version?

I guess it would mean that anyone who uses a MBV is a goose-stepping, SS, Brown shirt wearing, Jew-hater. Seems to me that is what he is implying anyways. Again, our author suffers from a lack of substantive footnoting. I would like to see a bit of documentation demonstrating a tight connection between the German Bible Society, the Nazis, and my ESV.

Furthermore, as the question charges, I want to see where the “Nazis” corrupted the OT. Apparently they did, right? The older Hebrew texts are still in print. If it is true that the Nazis made and approved the OT text from which the MBV are translated, then our KJV apologist should be able to give us clear examples where the Nazis changed the OT.

Additionally, the charge against the German Bible Society is a tad misinformed, because they did not officially organize until 1981, thirty-six years after WWII. There was a group of Protestant societies called the German Bible foundation, but they were established as early as 1710.  Certainly there had to have been some semi-organized group of Christians around when the Nazi took over Germany, but it is factually mistaken – and slanderously so – to charge the official German Bible Society with collaborating with Hitler.

Oh, but there is more.

The author goes on in his question to assert that the Nazis hired OT theologians to revise the OT in order to promote their antisemitic views.  He then implicates a Hebrew scholar he names as “Kittel.” He has to have in mind German Hebrew scholar Rudolf Kittel, who published three editions of the Hebrew OT, as one of the Bible-changing, Jew-haters hired by the Nazi party. The major problem with that charge, however, is that Rudolf Kittel died in 1929. That happens to be just a few years before the Nazi party came into power.

kittelMore than likely, our KJV onlyist is confusing Rudolf with his son Gerhard, who is usually the one accused of Nazi collaboration. Of course, KJVO apologists rarely care about such sniggling details. Gerhard was a New Testament scholar, not an Old Testament scholar, like his father. He edited the famous Kittel’s Theological Dictionary of the NT that is still in use today in many seminaries and is quoted as an authority in defining NT words.

Though it is true Gerhard was named as an “official” theologian by the Nazi party and the Nazi’s often appealed to some of his works as an excuse for their antisemitic eugenic policies, the KJV onlyists who attempt a connection of modern Bible versions to Gerhard Kittel via the Nazi party are straining at some serious gnats. Moreover, they have to demonstrate where in Gerhard’s NT dictionary does he promote Nazi antisemitic ideas as well as how it impacted Bible translations to favor Nazism.

25). IF all of these concerns were valid, legitimate and provable, then do you still think that we should thoughtlessly chose and decide that Modern Versions of the Bible are somehow superior to the Historic Bibles that have been used around the world for thousands of years?

That is a mighty big “IF.” So far, none of the accusations leveled here against MBV have even come close to being established as legitimate. They all bubble up from the fever swamps of KJVO imaginations.

I could ask a similar question of our KJV apologist: IF all of those concerns were shown to be invalid, illegitimate, and outright contrived, then do you think you should apologize for leading young, unwitting Christians astray by confusing them with such baseless accusations and stupid nonsense?

26). Just how happy do you think that God will be, when you get up to Heaven in a few years, and they you can explain this yourself to HIM???

Well, what about you Mr. KJVO apologist? How happy do you think God will be when everything you wrote here is revealed to be foolish and nothing by wood, hay, and stubble and all of your dishonest misinformation is burned up before the Lord?

27). If you are a Pastor, is it true that you should already have these answers, Is it true that you should already have done this research, Is it True that you should already be ready to give an answer of him that asketh you – of the reason(s) and the hope that you have within you…???

I believe I have demonstrated to my readers, and I will to any congregation God is pleased to send me to pastor, that I have done sufficient research into this area. Moreover, I believe I have shown that the KJVO questions are easily answerable and refutable and when hard pressed with counter-questions, the KJVO apologist cannot adequately defend his world view.

28). We can certainly afford to be wrong ! The question is: Before God (and James 3) can you afford for us to be right ???

I am not sure what this question is asking, but lets turn it back on the KJVer. Before God, are you absolutely certain you are right about your history of Bible translations? Are you willing to repent of KJV onlyism if it can be shown to you that the belief is utterly unsupportable?

29). So, to continue…sharing truth here….Would you be surprised to learn that the German Bible Society does not follow Protestant Theology ? Would you be surprised to learn that the German Bible Society despises Martin Luther, His Bible and the Textus Receptus, and instead seems committed to promoting Bible Texts that (a) were rejected by the Christian Church for thousands of Years and (b) that “coincidentally” seem to greatly favor Roman Catholic Theology?

Again, I don’t believe you have established your conspiracy about the German Bible Society. But let’s say they are all devil worshipers and don’t care a lick about Martin Luther and Protestants. With all the mounds of manuscript evidence we have on hand to compare to their work, where exactly did they depart from the Bible?

Even more to the point, where exactly does the Received Text maintain orthodoxy where the MBV texts don’t? In other words, is there any orthodox Christian doctrine that is ONLY found in the Received Text? How exactly is the so-called modern Greek text corrupted from the original? That is what you haven’t shown. Like I have said before: heretics don’t intentionally corrupt texts as KJV onlyists claim. They have corrupted interpretations that they bring to the text so as to twist the text to fit those interpretations.

30). Would it surprise you to learn that for the Greek New Testament used by the German Bible Society/UBS, that they (UBS) hired the head of Theology of the Roman Catholic Church, the head of the Pontifical Institute in Rome (which trains the best of the Roman Catholic Theologians and Priests)…who is Archbishop Carlo Maria Martini of Milan ? And they hired him to be one of the main overseers of the Greek Text that is being used by almost all Protestant Seminaries in the USA today ? What should we do when we find this out ? Should we ignore it ? Should we pretend this practice does not take place, and maybe it will go away ? Do we keep smiling and say nothing ? Or do we decide to seek Truth, Love God with all of our heart, mind, and strength, and start asking the questions that others have been afraid to ask ? Do we finally decide that we will stand for something, take a risk and ask some very hard questions ???

attackI have already mentioned this before, but let me ask one more time just in case our KJVer skipped quickly over my question: What do you do when you find out Erasmus, the man who gave us the Received Text, the text KJV onlyists insist is the pure Word of God, was a life long Mary-worshiping, Eucharist-taking, infused-grace believing, celibate priest who never recanted his Catholicism?

Do you keep smiling and say nothing? Or will you recognize your hypocrisy of accusing MBV folks of collusion with Catholics even though the very Bible you claim is straight from heaven was edited in its original by a Catholic who didn’t care for Protestants? Will you finally decide to stand for the truth and answer some hard questions, even if it leads to abandoning your KJV onlyism and in spite of being named an apostate by Peter Ruckman?

31). Keeping in mind that the corrupt Greek Text of Westcott & Hort are used for a great deal of the UBS/Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament Text, How much research have you personally done on the Occultic Practices of Westcott & Hort, or do you wish instead to email us, and we can share with you some of the details of this, from their own writings ???

I have actually done quite a bit and if you will read my testimonial on leaving KJV onlyism, you will note how it was my research into the lives of Westcott and Hort, sparked by Gail Riplinger’s asinine book, New Age Bible Versions, that placed me on the path of leaving KJV onlyism once and for all.

How about you? Have you personally done any research into what Westcott and Hort REALLY believed? Or do you choose to only believe second and third hand misinformation published by KJVO  apologists who have distorted the lives of those men to make them out to be virgin slaying Satan worshipers? Have you taken the time to read the research of James May, who has read through nearly all of Dr. Westcott’s printed works and has shown that KJV onlyists totally manufacture the bulk of their libelous citations against him?

32). Would you be surprised to learn that many of the translators of the modern versions of the Bible state in their own writings that they do NOT believe in the literal Bible ? Have you personally done research on this topic yourself ? Have you read 3 books on this specific subject ? Have you even read one?

I want to see some documentation to the first question, and then I want to see him make a direct connection between their so-called unorthodox belief about the Bible and how that belief has corrupted their translation.

As for doing research on this topic: I have read at least 50 books on the subject, many of which are KJVO publication I still own to this day. How’s them apples? Additionally, I have read hundreds of web articles from KJVO publications and I once participated on at least two KJVO web board discussion groups and interacted personally with a few aggressive KJVO apologists for nearly a year or more until I was dismissed from their groups for being a “troublemaker.”

I will say that after spending that time with those self-taught “experts,” maybe except for two or three, none of them had any solid grasp on textual criticism, let alone proper translation technique. A good portion of them were not even familiar with the original biblical languages except for use of a Strong’s concordance or an online Bible search program. And all of them were prone to fits of conspiratorial nonsense and contrived historical revisionism in order to lend support to their KJVO worldview.

Let me ask you: Have you read at least 3 books that critically evaluate the claims set forth by KJVO apologists? How about one? And I mean you truly read it, not thumb through it to find more selective grist for your KJVO mill. I mean truly read it and pondered what the author was saying against KJV onlyism?

33). Don’t feel so good if you have read the “King James Only debate” by James White. Are you even aware of how much re-writing there was, between the First Edition of this book, and all of the Editions that came after ? Have you also gone on the internet to see, learn, read or study the answers that Gail Riplinger gave ? (We are simply trying to help you assess – for yourself – just how thorough and truth-seeking your research, which you have personally done, has been)

Okay, so the accusation is that James White, a scholarly critic of KJV onlyism, re-wrote his book, The King James Only Controversy, several times, thus producing several editions. The implication of this question is that James has been deceptive about his multiple editions and that they were necessary because he had so much difficulty dealing with KJVO argumentation, or he distorted the truth about the credibility of the KJVO apologists he was criticizing.

Seeing that I happen to know James just a bit, and seeing that I know many men who are much closer to James than I am and can vouch for the integrity of his character, I find the accusation posed in this question to be… well … trashy. So, I personally emailed James White through his ministry, Alpha and Omega Ministries, and presented to him this question. This is what he wrote back to me:

There has been only one edition of the book to begin with. While I would like to do a new edition, it would be hard, since I did the original typesetting myself! So I have no idea where these folks are coming from or what they are referring to. I shall look into their charge.

 

In other words, our KJVO apologist has either been misinformed as to the nature of Mr. White’s book, or he is making that lie up. I know James, and I do not believe he is lying to me. (BTW, Since I originally wrote this post, there has been a second, updated edition that expands on the original work including interaction with the claims of Bart Ehrman and Muslim apologists against the Bible – Fred).

So which is it Bible Discernment guy? Are you intentionally making that charge up or have you bought into the distortions of fact? I notice that you got the title of his book wrong when you wrote out the question, so maybe you are a dupe depending upon 2nd or 3rd hand information. Additionally, you seem to think that Mrs. Gail Riplinger is a credible apologist for your cause even though she has been debunked by even individuals within KJV onlyism. See for example David Cloud’s two articles I found easily after a quick search here and here.

So there we go. I answered everyone of those 33 questions. If anyone were to take just the least amount of time to study outside the KJVO bubble, they will find the questions are not at all frightening.  They can be answered, even if they are too heavy for Satan.

defeat
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5 thoughts on “Answers KJV Onlyists are Afraid You will Provide [3]

  1. I’m curious how people respond to your answers…if they reply at all. I would especially like to hear the response to James White’s response about the book.

  2. When I originally wrote up these articles many years ago, I did notify the author of the questions, but he just left one, non-response comment that didn’t engage my rebuttals.

    There is one particular guy who tries to leave comments here (I typically don’t approve them), but all he does is link troll for his own articles at his website and doesn’t engage anything in the article.

    Occasionally there will be a person who leaves good challenges, but I haven’t encountered many of them.

  3. It is sad that it is that way because God has given us all brains capable of reasoning and communicating logically (that is what separates us from animals), but some choose to set that aside and stay stuck in their pride. Not saying I haven’t had seasons or moments of this myself, but I only grow when I repent of the pride and seek truth.

  4. It occured to me reading this that the argument is about King James ONLY, not whether it is good and proper to use the KJV if you want to. For its beauty of language, it probably is the best version in the English langauge, but for being comprehensible to modern English speakers current usage is to be preferred. Nevertheless, I’ve heard edifying sermons based on the KJB text on many an occasion.

    If the modern versions really were a conspiracy to twist the word of God, then advocates of them would try to forbid anyone using the KJV, but I have never ever heard of anyone actually trying to do this.

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